Getting 15 month old to sleep in a bed

[Gillybean]

wow fantastic, can i go first then lol

Welcome Lisa my name is Gill and I have 3 children 10, 8 and 15 months. I need help with my youngest to get her to sleep in a bed.
she used to sleep in her cot from 3 months to 7 months 11 hours a night then she was ill had a cough/cold and we stupidly brought he into our bed and 8 months on can't get her out.

I've tried laying next to her on the floor but she kept waking all night I did this for a few weeks on and off.

I've tried laying a hand on her tummy and putting gentle pressure on like they did on the channel 4 sleep program on sleep but a) I got pins and needles from having to do it sooo long b) as soon as I moved she cried and c) she still kept waking through the night when i finally slipped away and usually within the hour.

I've tried controlled crying but she wouldn't give up and even having my back to her but it was very hard to do and I felt bad.

I've tried laying next to her on the bottom bunk which is her bed now as I've given up on the cot and dismantled it. but if i tried to move away the whole bed creaks and she wakes up then thinks it's play time

so with a bed guard she sleeps on my side of the bed next to me which gives me limited space but she does sleep although sometimes she will fidget and squeak lol when her dummy falls out or she wants to be really really close as in laying on my arm with her head touching mine

is there anything we can do that will help her

thank you

[weezypops]

Gill, I've moved this to a new thread

[Gillybean]

ok hank you

[Theblissfulbabyexp]

Hi Gill! Thanks for being the first to post!
One question before I start...do you have to lie with her to get her off to sleep in the evenings or does she just stay up until you go to bed? What about any daytime naps-how does she go off to sleep or settle for those?

[Gillybean]

thanks for replying Lisa. I lie with her in my bed and she will fall asleep and I'll sit next to her and watch something on my laptop.
she'll usually be asleep by 8ish.
During the day she sleeps in her buggy if we are out and about or will fall asleep next to me on the sofa.

sometimes I have managed to get her to sleep in her own bed with cloud babies on the tv upstairs during the day. Interestingly enough last week I went on a course for 2 whole days and 2 different people looked after her and she quite happily went with them and slept there too and didn't cry for me but it's like as soon as she sees me she must have me, she even cries when my husband tries to cuddle her sometimes even though i'm siting right next to him she just wants me.

[Theblissfulbabyexp]

They have an amazing way of making us mummies feel as guilty as possible don't they?! At least the 2 days last week will have given you the confidence that she can settle without you and quite happily too.

To be honest at 15 months I would suggest that she's too young to be in a bed and you need to go back to the confines of a cot until she's well over 2. I know you said you took the cot down because she wasnt using it but I think she needs the safety of the cot in order for you to concentrate fully on the settling issues you are having. That would be the first step. If you have room then it needs to be in the room that she has been regularly sleeping in most recently.

I'm sure with her being in a bed, even when you were trying to be stricter, it would have been more worrying knowing that she could climb out or fall out-that in itself would make you more likely to soothe her to sleep, and also respond to her immediately.

Once you have the cot back up then you need to establish a bedtime wind down and routine that remains exactly the same every night.
For example- Tea
Bath
Bottle/cup of milk downstairs if she has it
Upstairs for stories with low lights in the room that she sleeps in
Place her in the cot and use some kind of sleep cue like a mobile, or lullaby cd, white noise ap and give her the dummy -with a few extra scattered around the cot for good measure in case she decides to throw them out in a temper! Lol

Once in the cot there are 2 ways you can play the bedtime routine out.

1-You use the gradual retreat method
This means you stay in the room in the dark and sit next to the cot but do not make eye contact or speak to her at all.
If she stands up then you calmly lie her down and sit back down again next to the cot. If she's really screaming then you can place a hand through the cot bars and say shhh shhh very loudly to reassure her that you are there.
The idea is that over a period of days and weeks you gradually manage to move closer and closer to the door until eventually you are able to put her down awake and she settles herself without you needing to stay in the room.
You repeat the gradual retreat method each time she wakes up and under no circumstances does she come into your bed again. The quicker she learns that isn't an option the easier it will be. If you have to pick her up to calm her, then you do it in the nursery and put her back in the cot and repeat the sitting position next to the cot as soon as you can.

Option 2 is the controlled crying or cry it out method. I know this method is not for everyone but it does work if used in the correct way, and for some parents is the only option they are left with if the gradual retreat method doesn't work.

There is a case study about a baby called Isabel and her mum Natalie in my book-who were in a very similar situation to you. Isabel was aged 9 months at the time but was doing everything your little one was doing and Natalie was sleeping with her every night and having to resettle her 5-10 times per night.
I suggested the 2 methods to her and she did try the gradual retreat but found that made Isabel more irate that she was in the room but not actually picking her up!
She ended up using the controlled crying method very effectively and was amazed how quickly it worked.

It really depends on the child and parent as to what method is likely to work best.
It may even be worth getting your husband to try the gradual retreat method for the first couple of nights as she may settle better for him rather than playing with your heart strings!

Does all of that make sense? Feel free to ask me more questions if I haven't explained anything well enough....

[Gillybean]

Thanks Lisa I was kinda hoping for a different approach I guess more wishfull thinking.

To be honest I don't think putting the cot back up would solve the problem as she screams when just being put in there and I am quite confident that she can easily get up and down off her bed even in the dark as she has proven to be able to do so.
Also I really dont relish sitting in the floor in her room all night for a week or more not sleeping trying to get her to stay asleep and also keeping her brother up who she shares a room with.

Sorry if this sounds rude i guess as I sure am not trying to be so I think I might just stick it out for a bit longer and see if she grows out of it lol

but I will say thank you though

[Theblissfulbabyexp]

Hi Gill
Don't worry I'm not offended. Every parent and child is different and we all have different approaches.
As you mentioned in your first post you have tried various methods unsuccessfully. Both of the methods I have described above do most definitely work and have been used successfully with many parents and babies.
It sounds like you are happy to continue co-sleeping which is fine if that is what is currently working for you.
I will warn you that it is HIGHLY unlikely that she will ever just 'grow out of it.' Sleep issues tend to get worse and not better-particularly when babies or children are relying on your presence all of the time. It's usually not a problem for parents when they are young and snuggly-it's when they reach 3 or 4, are much bigger and more wakeful that it really becomes a problem for many parents.

A week of patience and perseverance may sound like a lot but when you think of what you can achieve in that time and the benefits it will give to you, her and even other members of the family, it's usually very worth it in most parents opinions.

Feel free to come back to me if you decide that you do want things to change though.
Just out of interest, what kind of approach were you hoping for? I'm happy to discuss alternative methods if you would like to, although the ones mentioned are the most effective in my opinion.

[Gillybean]

lol I was kinda hoping for a quick fix although I know there isn't one. I will eventually bite the bullet and get it sorted though

[Theblissfulbabyexp]

No worries. Come back to me when you are ready and have enough energy to tackle it!

I've just consulted with a mum who has a 3yr old who has always co-slept with them. She's now 5 months pregnant and wanted to get his sleep sues sorted out once and for all before the new baby arrives in the summer. She came to me after going to sleep clinics, speaking to doctors, health visitors etc and said she had tried everything.

After following my instructions he now settles himself and sleeps all night until around 6am. If he does wake in the night, he now settles back to sleep very easily after mum only going in once to reassure. It wasn't easy of course nd the first 3 nights in particular were the hardest, but she has her sanity back and a child that is much happier during the day as he's not so exhausted from constant night waking.

That is just one example-I have consulted with many other parents in similar situations.

Like I said, come back to me when you are ready. :-)

[Gillybean]

Thanks Lisa I will, its the difficulty of getting her to sleep which has taken an hour or so then her constant re awakening through the night and having to start all over again

[Theblissfulbabyexp]

That's to be expected as she's relying on you to resettle her to sleep every time she passes through the sleep cycle and comes into a light sleep-rather than being able to settle herself! The following extract has been taken from the sleep chapter of my new book The blissful baby expert.
'A baby who is left to find their own sleep routine and only ever doze off in a pushchair, car seat and on a play mat is very likely to be much more unsettled during the day and night. She will be irritable even when awake during the day because she isn't getting any quality sleep in a quiet environment. All babies come into a light sleep 30-60 minutes after they have drifted off to sleep. It is at this point that they will either wake up or drift into a deeper sleep. If your baby/child is taught the correct sleep associations from a young age and learns how to settle herself, then she is much less likely to wake herself up as she drifts between the stages of sleep-and will then drop into a deeper sleep.'
' The four stages of sleep are as follows:
1:Drowsiness-the eyes droop and may open and close as she dozes
2:Light sleep-She moves and may startle or jump when she hears a noise
3:Deep sleep-In deep sleep your baby will breathe deeply and regularly,sometimes with a big sigh. She will lie still but may move her arms or legs and move a little and make little sucking movements with her mouth or suddenly give a start. These sudden movements f the whole body are called hypnagogic startles and are perfectly normal.Im sure you may even ave experienced them yourself as you drift off to sleep.
4:Very deep sleep-quiet and baby doesn't move
The usual cycle of sleep is stage 1 at the beginning of the sleep cycle, then stage 2,3 and 4. She will then move back to stage 3, then 2 and then to REM sleep
REM(rapid eye movement) sleep is a lighter sleep when dreams occur and the eyes move rapidly back and forth. Although babies spend around 16 hours a Amy sleeping, about half of this is in REM sleep. Older children and adults sleep fewer hours and spend much less time in REM sleep.

The above cycles may occur several times during sleep. Babies may awaken as they pass from deep sleep to light sleep in the first few months and may have difficulty going back to sleep if taught the wrong sleep associations.
A baby who is not 'put down' to sleep in a quiet environment for her day as well as night time sleep is highly likely to wake when she drifts into a light sleep. This can then lead to her only ever 'cat-napping' during the day, where she just has short sleeps of between 30-60 minutes as a maximum. If a baby is never taught or encouraged to settle into a deeper sleep at least once during the day, how can she be expected to be able to do it at night time? She will continue naturally to wake up during the night time every time she drifts into that light sleep-and then expect you to help her get back to sleep, as she doesn't know how to do it on her own!'

Research has proven that all babies drift into a light sleep repeatedly during the night, just as we as adults do. It is only the babies and children who are taught the wrong sleep associations who are unable to resettle themselves.'

Hope the above goes some way to explaining what is happening with your daughter and why.
There is more information in my book that is only £1.03 to download from Amazon

http://www.amazon.co.uk/The-Blissful-Ba ... aby+expert

[Gillybean]

Lisa could you give me your techniques for Tabitha for a good bedtime routine please as so far had no or disturbed sleep for the last 3 days.

Think I'm ready lol

[Theblissfulbabyexp]

Great news you have had 3 good nights! What has been your usual bedtime routine over the last 3 nights in order for her to go to sleep?
Same as usual or anything different? It will be good to keep things as similar as possible if you are thinking you want to move her back to her own bed....

[Gillybean]

sorry wrote it wrong meant to say had 3 disturbed nights and need help as i'm knackered