Vivp's query

[vivp]

Vicky I have a few question that i never really got answered when i had thomas.

1) thomas came out face to face he was alway on his side do you think that is because my waters where broke or because i was strapped to the bed the whole time.

2) Are 4th babies high risk.

3) Thomas was 9lb5oz and i had a pretty hard time getting him out do you think that was to do with the sizes or because he was a big boy.

4) if i was mad enough to do a 5th baby would there be more risk for myself and would it be a even bigger baby.

viv

[Bruch70]

Hi Vivp,

Again i can only give you my best educated 'guesstimate' not having your notes or medical history to hand. I'm also guessing Thomas was your 4th baby?

Firsly, i would think that if your waters broke (especially if this was naturally and at the beginning of your labour, it could well have been due to the baby's position, even sideways they do put a bit of uneven pressure on the waters and cervix and this can cause the membranes to rupture). However, i wouldn't worry about that too much as it isn't always the most important factor. It is difficulttojudge unless you are the midwife who is at the labour too. Sometimes the waters breaking can be good thing as it causes the baby to descend, meet the pelvic floor muscles and help it rotate (usually into a position where they are looking towards your back as opposed to back to back) but sometimes they can turn the other way. Babies born like this are called 'Direct OP (occiput posterior) or more commonly in midwifery 'face to pubes' (sounds a bit rude but actually refers to your pubic bone at the front of your pelvis!!).


But i do think the strapping to the bed may well have had an impact, as gravity would have been wprking against you. I don't know the exact reasons you were strapped (being monitored i am guessing?) to the bed but unless you have an epidural or your mobility is restricted, it is possible to change into better more helpful positions, such as kneeling on the bed and leaning over the back, sitting in a chair, on a birth ball/stool or standing (or a mixture of these, a change is a good as a rest sometimes!!) And i have certainly been with labouring women where she has been in all of these positions while monitoring the baby well (if this is absolutely necessary- monitors can be overused sometimes!)


4th babies are NOT high risk, or rather 4th pregnancies/births, providing there are no medical concerns with either the woman or the baby. Sometimes they may say they think you will be mroe likely to have a post partum (after the birth) haemorrhage (or PPH as they often call it) as the uterus is more stretched the more babies you have -but this isn't true! Did they say why they told you 4th babies are high risk, let me know if they did and i might be able to help with the explanation a bit more.

I think you managed to birth a good sized baby and should be incredibly proud of your body! Particularly when they are born back to back- this is a much harder position to birth asbaby's head diameter is increased by another centimetre! If i were your midwife, i would have NO worries about you giving birth again!! (except i would always keep you off your back as this reduces the space in your pelvis during birth and this is the time you really need it!!)

If you had a 5th baby (you have more energy than me that's for sure ) if you had an active, upright labour, chances are the baby would adopt a position that was easier to birth. For example, using a birth stool opens your pelvic outlet by around another 28-30%, which can make a huge difference. Sometimes though, you expect a biggish baby and are surprised by a 6 and half pounder!! If you were seriously worried though about baby being big, i would recommend a book called the gentle birth method by Gowri Motha (she is an obstetrician with a special interest in complementary therapies and diet). It is quite a restrictive approach to diet but she beleives that what we eat has an effect on baby's size. Some of my clients have used this (well some parts, not all as i say, it is quite restrictive about what you can and can't eat) and it does seem to help the next baby be a bit smaller. I imagine if you didn't want to buy it (it is available on amazon) you could ask your local library to order it in for you.

With the risk to you, i would say no more than having any baby, you may find they talk about the increased risk of bleeding again, but as i say, this isn't backed up by much in the way of research and seems to be obstetric rote learning repeated again and again. If you are healthy and baby is healthy, you should be just fine.

However, like i said originally, I think your body has done a fantastic job so far birthing your babies so would not let you down . Have a think about all these things as it might make you feel a bit more in control if you did go for it again!

Warm wishes,
Vicky




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[vivp]

hi thanks for replying vicky.

Yes i was on the monitor for 6hrs midwife wouldnt let me get up so i was either on my side or back, i was hoping that if i asked to go for a wee she would let me walk around but said i had to be monitored the whole time,which has never happened in my last 2 babies, and yes thomas was my 4th.
She said that 4th was high risk due to bleeding more and specially as my 3rd baby was 9lb but i have to say i pushed him out no problem.
I would have thought that being small myself that i would have had small babies lol, so looks like I eat all the wrong food I only put a stone on with all four of my babies so its not like i over eat, maybe they are living of all the cakes and chocolates i was eating.
I would love to have a 5th baby but i think DH will put his foot down.

viv

[twinklepaws]

Hi. I'm not a midwife, but I'm expecting my fifth. Don't have a clue about most of the things you've asked, but I was told by the midwife at my booking in appointment that I would be considered 'high risk' due to having my 5th. She sent me to see a consultant at the hospital, but he said I am NOT considered high risk and I'm hoping to have a home birth.

Good luck working on hubby, lol

[Bruch70]

Good for you! It is always banded about that women who have had 4/5 babies or more are more at risk of a haemorrhage but this is not supported by the evidence! Stick to your guns- i was at the lovely homebirth of baby no 6 last year, she came to us as the NHS midwife refused to attend her- she'd already had 5 normal births!!!

It is your right to have a homebirth if you and baby are well and everything is normal so feel within your rights to dig your heels in!

warm wishes,
Vicky

[Bruch70]

also Viv, i wanted to add that i think keeping a women attached to a monitor in a normal labour and refusing to let her use to toilet is tantamount to bullying!! I feel really bad that you were treated this way.

I would urge women to always think about how they are treated in the maternity serices- it can sometimes make you feel very disempowered but you are in control and they should be asking permission from you, not the other way around. Sometimes, some of them forget this!! Everyone deserves to be treated with respect and labouring women especially so!!

Warm wishes,
Vicky

[BrandonsMum08]

it can sometimes make you feel very disempowered but you are in control and they should be asking permission from you, not the other way around. Sometimes, some of them forget this!!

This is exactly what happened with me! Fortunately my OH knew exactly what I did and didnt want because id drummed it in to him so many times whilst pregnant. I didnt want any men in the room unless it was an absolute emergency but when in labour a male anaethetist (sp?) just walked straight in my labour room without even knocking to get something. Fortunately i was covered up, but it turns out my midwife needed him anyway because she couldnt find a vein (she was taking bloods and fitting a drip to speed me up). Then i had a pethidine and was very drowsey. DS heartrate dropped and a female doctor came in, followed by a male, to which my OH told him where to go as we'd told them the situation. He insisted he had a look as it was an emergency and i may need emergency c section (and heres the best bit!! - totally wasnt needed to be said) otherwise my baby could die!! Turns out i was ready to push, and i just hadnt been checked regularly enough after the drip was fitted and i gave birth naturally within 10mins and only the female doctor was needed to stitch me. That alone probably spoiled the experience for me because they didnt listen to what i wanted and made me feel bad for not letting him "look" and convinced me and OH by scaring us.

[vivp]

All the midwife said was she had to keep me monitored because she wasnt getting alot of movement from him so wanted to keep a eye on thomas.

maybe i will start saving now for you lol.

viv

also Viv, i wanted to add that i think keeping a women attached to a monitor in a normal labour and refusing to let her use to toilet is tantamount to bullying!! I feel really bad that you were treated this way.

I would urge women to always think about how they are treated in the maternity serices- it can sometimes make you feel very disempowered but you are in control and they should be asking permission from you, not the other way around. Sometimes, some of them forget this!! Everyone deserves to be treated with respect and labouring women especially so!!

Warm wishes,
Vicky

[Bruch70]

I would be very honoured if you did!

Vicky